Curse

PieXags · Jul 15, 2005, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Alright Pie's awake.

People you're all missing the point. The point he's trying to make is that right now, a good many people think PvP in this game is boring as hell, too small-scale, entirely without motivation, and too insanely tiny and pointless to get you immersed at all. If the guild wars are over, why are guilds still fighting? Because they feel like doing tiny little 8vs8 skirmishes for the hell of it so they can see that they've won? Whoopee! ...not, big deal. Fighting the exact same builds over and over gets really old really fast, this game's PvP isn't about tactics and adapting and using skill once the game begins, it's usually the battle's been decided just by the groups build, and that's it. And that's just stupid in the small sized battles we have.

So since there are those who view PvP to be like that, they go to PvE. You see it's not that they WANT farming, it's that they want something to do. You need to understand that. Quit asking "what's fun about farming?!" becuase it's not so much farming that we want. We want to be able to work on something and feel like we're achieving something as we work towards a goal of some sort. We are entirely unable to do that now. PvE as a normal game and story is easy as hell once you do a few missions, it's not difficult to beat it multiple times because most everyone and their mom has beaten the game by now. The problem is we need SOMETHING to do after we've beaten it. And as of right now PvP is lacking, and while we USED to be able to at least work up money for high-end armor/weapons, we can't even do that any longer. And that's why we're pissed. PvP people can bitch about faction all they want, the next week they put out an update to work towards that, while swinging the nerf bat and screwing the economy at the PvE side of the game.

And that's why there are those of us, a little tweaked.

To stay on-topic, if Anet keeps PvP so insanely tiny and pointless so it's nothing more than "your team won" at the end, and if they keep screwing over PvE players than no, I won't be buying the expansions. You people can say "once you beat PvE it's done" all you want but you can't tell us it was supposed to be like that, here on the box it says "explore a world that dynamically grows and changes with new content while you play", yeah, I've been playing for 460+ hours and all I've seen is the nerf bat and some traders that've screwed everyone over.

Ramaloke · Jul 15, 2005, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvertemplar

Chances are if i want to PvE i'll not be playing GW expansion...heck even Dungeons and Dragons Online looks like it's using some ideas from GW [instances and getting xp from quests instead of mobs] , and that comes out like next month...

Just wanted to point out that D&D has been awarding experience for finishing quests for a *lot* longer than guild wars. Its Optional for a DM to do so but usually a DM does.

Haloknight9 · Jul 15, 2005, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

To stay on-topic, if Anet keeps PvP so insanely tiny and pointless so it's nothing more than "your team won" at the end, and if they keep screwing over PvE players than no, I won't be buying the expansions. You people can say "once you beat PvE it's done" all you want but you can't tell us it was supposed to be like that, here on the box it says "explore a world that dynamically gorws and changes with new content while you play", yeah, I've been playing for 460+ hours and all I've seen is the nerf bat and some traders that've screwed everyone over.

Maybe they are trying to simulate a stock market crash in olden times(as if the poor ascalons suffered enough)?
Not really im just joking, but i know what you are talking about. Seems they are taking away content for some of us that like to farm just for fun or to supply our guild of casual gamers. And no, for those of you about to say it, im not going to go do a warrior just to get money, i dislike warrior. Why create content for myself that is supposed to be there for all classes in the first place?

Anyway, just my two cents. Im sure ill get some sort of flames against it from warrior or monk based farmers.

AGTyson2Tone · Jul 15, 2005, 09:09 AM // 09:09

... probably.

I do not understand why half of the people on these boards are whining and complaining so much and still continue to play... And 95 % of the complaints are utter non-sense. I have never ever encountered a support team which is so eagerly trying to adjust and finetune a game (and this one is even FREE!) and yet the only thing (well almost

) they get in return is little child's complaints... goes beyond my understanding ...

I love the game and always will... so I am 99 % sure that I will buy the next expansions...

The Hated · Jul 15, 2005, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouderthanSeth

And don't try to explain it Disciple becuase I can't either. I also have a lot of fun farming. People ask how? Maybe its the luck of the draw or unlocking or even the large amounts of money involed. And for those who STILL call farming an exploit please do me a favor and ask why Anet made fissure armor so costly. Everyone getting fissure armor exploiters? I think not.....

amen brother AMEN, bunchof whining crybabies.

generik · Jul 15, 2005, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Currently I'm really peeved by the latest update..

I see the new trader behaviour as just another constraint on what I can do in game.. in the PVE/RP side of the game!

On a brighter note, people in ToA seem to have wisened up a little, but it is only a matter of time before those idiots (who could have barely cleared the crystal desert) will just pay the couple of plat to get run through the missions, and make their way back again.

I've also heard SOME talk about how for subsequent chapters our characters will be wiped and we start over from 0.

I certainly hope that's not the case, because if that's what going to happen.. nothing is stopping me from ditching GW completely.

And I do feel that I speak for the upper 10% of the community, afterall I do have 1 collector's edition, and 1 standard edition. I see the great potential in this game, but with each update, it just seems to get cut back more and more.. to the point that game play is virtually linear, and dependent on the behaviour of (potential) idiots as well.

Maybe with the addition of a auction house, or some other better trading provisions, I might actually get to enjoy the game more.

1) I hate to trade
2) I know of people getting scammed in trades
3) Some people even tried to scam me by enterring 600 instead of 6 plat and hope I don't notice
4) I don't mind getting on with the ole game, if it removes the hassle of trade!

I don't know what's the new trader meant to do, it seems to be pushing us to conduct more interplayer trade. Which will inturn result in more trade spam, which will cause people to turn off trade channel, which will inturn result in less efficient trading, which will cause you and I to spend more time trying to sell something.

Thanks and no thanks. This game is not eBay wars. And as much as you might want to put it otherwise, you do need to conduct a certain amount of trading to get rich ultimately. Unless you are perfectly happy with your collector armor and weapons.

Depending on how things go, heck, in view that the next chapter is coming in the same time frame as the morrowwind expansion, I believe another company probably deserves my business more. I heard they can even own houses in there, and it is not even a RP!

Calimar · Jul 15, 2005, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Well, generik, you're being a bit too harsh here.
The fact characters will be wiped off is so idiot that I can't think ANY company would EVER be THAT stupid. Let alone A.net. Also, what about those who don't buy the expansion? GW is been advertised as "you can keep playing even without buying further expansions", so what, you add the new code and I wipe your chars off, if you don't you can keep your chars?? Yeah right.

You can STILL sell your stuff at the merchant. I've done most of my money like that. I'm not one to stay in towns long, spamming "WTS lodestone" or what have you. It's just harder to BUY - which, if anything, shortens your selling times.

My not even remotely humble opinion.

silvertemplar · Jul 15, 2005, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Quote:

Just wanted to point out that D&D has been awarding experience for finishing quests for a *lot* longer than guild wars. Its Optional for a DM to do so but usually a DM does.

I know, i'm not trying to say who used who's ideas first [D&D is the grandfather of RPG afterall, i hardly see something that did NOT originate from D&D....]. The online D&D MMORPG sounds to me alot like the PvE that GuildWars do not have using the same fundementals. I'm not sure Anet would want to try and compete with DnD Online. Reading the DnD Devlogs i'm actually more convinced that Guildwars will go the PvP way [because DDO is going the PvE way....].

Pandora's box · Jul 15, 2005, 09:43 AM // 09:43

I will buy the next expansion once it meets the definition of a RPG:

2.10. Role Playing Game (aka RPG)

Anyone who has played games like Dungeons & Dragons or Call of Cthulhu knows exactly what an RPG is. You play a character, sometimes more than one, characterized by traits (eg strength, dexterity), skills (eg explosives, basket weaving, mechanics) and properties (levels, cash). As you play, the character becomes more powerful and the game adjusts itself accordingly, so instead of fighting orcs, at high levels you start fighting black dragons. The rewards increase correspondingly. At low levels you might get some gold pieces as a reward for winning a battle. At high levels, you might get a magic sword or a kick-butt assault rifle.

RPG's generally have a quest with a well defined ending. In nethack you need to retrieve the amulet of Yendor for your god. In Ultima II, you destroy the evil sorceress Minax. At some point, your character becomes powerful enough that you can `go for it' and try to complete the quest.

Source:
http://linuxreviews.org/games/Linux-...TO/en/x72.html

So it involves developping a POWERFULL chr. and getting BETTER rewards on progressing through the game. The way pve in GW now is reminds more of rts than rpg. So for now the answer is: No.

generik · Jul 15, 2005, 09:46 AM // 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calimar

Well, generik, you're being a bit too harsh here.
The fact characters will be wiped off is so idiot that I can't think ANY company would EVER be THAT stupid. Let alone A.net. Also, what about those who don't buy the expansion? GW is been advertised as "you can keep playing even without buying further expansions", so what, you add the new code and I wipe your chars off, if you don't you can keep your chars?? Yeah right.

Yeap, you are right, it makes no sense from marketability's perspective.. but that's what I heard some talking about.

I do like my characters, to the point that I even bought an extra access key so that I can have one for each class! Trust me, I will definitely not upgrade if somehow they do decide to wipe all of them.

People can say what they like, about GW being a PvP game, but looking at the Sorrow's Furnace preview... I can really feel the effort that the devs have put into the design.. the many refinements they made to the concept and artwork.. it just peeves me to no end how with each update there is lesser and lesser to do.

I never farmed.

Now I can't even trade.

Bummer.

On the another note, they really should incorporate a feedback system into PvE, so we can rate down those AFKers/idiotic quitters, and have it reflect badly on them.

Missions are fun, heck, even UW is fun after doing it for the 100th or 1000th time. Putting up with griefers is NOT fun. In fact it can really be agonising.

generik · Jul 15, 2005, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

RPG's generally have a quest with a well defined ending. In nethack you need to retrieve the amulet of Yendor for your god. In Ultima II, you destroy the evil sorceress Minax. At some point, your character becomes powerful enough that you can `go for it' and try to complete the quest.

Nah.. I never had any delusions that GW is this kind of game.

But GW did have more to it when I first started.. and now.. let's just call my posts the final whinges of an (almost) ex-GW lover

If it so happens that I'd have to ditch this, I'd be pretty upset, not so much from the loss of my $100, it is just such a colossal waste. GW could have offered so much more.

PieXags · Jul 15, 2005, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Precisely, it's more the fact that we used to have what we want, and they took it away, and they keep on removing content as opposed to leaving it in and adding more bonuses, thus giving us LESS to do in the game instead of more as we were told.

generik · Jul 15, 2005, 10:02 AM // 10:02

And before any.. FBs.. counters again

Let's add that we aren't even referring to farming.

Watersong · Jul 15, 2005, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Quite right.

I wouldn't have such a problem with it if you didn't need a PvE character at all or if PvP would be a little bit more creative... More involved... Something that might require strategy aside from the build.

john little · Jul 15, 2005, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

So it involves developping a POWERFULL chr. and getting BETTER rewards on progressing through the game. The way pve in GW now is reminds more of rts than rpg. So for now the answer is: No.

There are ways to make a character powerful in PvE without unbalancing PvP, it already happens in the current PvE when you get infused armour. This confers no benefits in PvP yet makes your character more powerful in PvE. I imagine this will be one technique they use in the expansion to keep it fresh.

I feel i've got my money's worth already in GW. I'll almost certaintly buy the next expansion. I couldn't care less about fissure armour, it's one of the few carrots GW uses to keep the 'omg i have to have the best stuff' people playing and as such I wouldn't mind if it was removed completely.

As for the economy, if all the farming really has been nerfed as much as people moan, the prices should fall as demand reduces. Anet's policy of putting in lots of enchantment removal mobs balances up PvE and PvP a bit, I doubt you'd see any PvP'ers complaining about teams using enchantment removal. Soloing should remain challenging, it runs against the multiplayer aspect. I don't think it should be removed, but I do think that if anet keep adding mobs, that their appearance should be rp'ed a bit more - like if an area is repeatedly farmed you see a little cutscene of extra mobs appearing.

In the end though, PvE is self limiting. If you know the stats and skills of the enemy, you have a massive advantage. It's what allows farming and specific builds. I think it would be interesting to have enemies have more random skill sets, and increase the difficulty that way instead of just adding more mobs.

shinseikaze · Jul 15, 2005, 10:33 AM // 10:33

new gameplay features,more customisation options,broad range of characters,special events,larger number of teams in Guild battles where alliances can be formed,better rank system in Guild

Answer = Yes

=HT=Ingram · Jul 15, 2005, 10:48 AM // 10:48

I will absolutely buy the update. for the reasons you said you will not. the shier fact that you will not buy it makes me want to buy it more, cause it will ensure that only people that actually want to PLAY the game are in the expansion areas.

As far as rewards being better for PvP. that's the BEST part of the game. Rewards like that encourage playing against others every once in a while. Since playing WITH others is so lame in PvE because all anyone ever wants to do is farm, or capture skills... Instead of PLAYING THE GAME. So please, I want to hold you to your word. do not buy the expansion. It will be a pleasant opportunity for the rest of the community to be free of your kind.

I personally enjoy the game as a whole more every day. And I thank all the beta and alpha testers like myself that went through during beta and tested area after area, for bugs... and dead map points, or map sync problems. I know the beta testers went to great pains to do PvE and PvP and GvG to great extent. The community would be up in arms with problems without them. Thanks Alpha and fellow beta testers... Heres to testing Chapter two in a few months huh!!!

Racthoh · Jul 15, 2005, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Ah, the Pie and its infinite wisdom...

Exactly, the PvE content is being drained and we have nothing to do BUT farm. PvP is way too boring, how people can do it nonstop is beyond me. On the other hand PvP players can't understand how PvEers can farm nonstop so that point is null and void.

I don't care what anyone says, raise the level cap. Just reduce it back to 20 when you PvP. That's all I ask. Sure I look at my character and see that I've earned 120 skill points... but that tiny 20 and my lack of HP and 20 energy makes my warrior cry. Even if getting another level beyond 20 is like 5 extra HP and that is it. I wouldn't care, I need that sense of accomplishment. The lack of levels kills the replay value of this game for PvE players. Raise the damage we deal, raise the armour, raise the life... raise SOMETHING!

Principa Discordia · Jul 15, 2005, 11:06 AM // 11:06

I very badly wish that I'd caught this thread sooner, but alas, I cannot be here 24 hours a day to babysit.

Disciple, please read this thread by THX.

Locked.